Co-hosts Whitney Terrell, V.V. Ganeshananthan, and Jennifer Maritza McCauley are joined by poet and essayist Kathryn Nuernberger, a frequent guest and longtime friend of the show, for a look back at the past decade of episodes. The quartet discuss the show’s origins, its focus on the Midwest and the globe, how the hosts prep for interviews, and how they think about the show’s tagline: “We believe that every issue in your social media feed or on the evening news has already been tackled somewhere in literature.”
To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/ This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Rylee Adamson, Valen Williams, and Lucien Hockaday.
Co-Hosts
Whitney Terrell • Jennifer Maritza McCauley • V. V. Ganeshananthan • Christian Barter
Guest
Kathryn Nuernberger
Held: Essays in Belonging • The Witch of Eye
Episodes Mentioned:
Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 1, Episode 1: The Art of Taking a Knee: Colin Kaepernick Edition • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 1, Episode 4: We’re All Russian, Now • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 1, Episode 12: C. Riley Snorton and T Fleischmann Talk Gender, Freedom, and Transitivity • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 2, Episode 1: MFA vs. Everything: Four Writers Weigh In • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 3, Episode 19: Black Stories Matter: Terrion Williamson and Jabari Asim on Narrative During the George Floyd Protests • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 4, Episode 3: Monsters for President: Maria Dahvana Headley on Modern Mythmaking • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 4, Episode 16: Michael Kleber-Diggs and Kao Kalia Yang on How Minnesota’s Literary Community Is Reacting to Racial Injustice • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 7, Episode 18: Glenn North on Kansas City’s Jazz, Poetry, and Barbeque • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 9, Episode 30: Rebecca Lehmann on Anne Boleyn, Trump, and Treason • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 9, Episode 41: Lupe Mendez on Texas Politics and the Killing of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo • Fiction/Non/Fiction Season 9, Episode 45: Aruni Kashyap on India’s Cockroach Youth Movement
EXCERPT FROM A CONVERSATION WITH KATHRYN NUERNBERGER
Kathryn Nuernberger: I’m thrilled to be here. And I was wondering, when you first conceived the show in 2016, did you anticipate that, ten years on, you’d still be exploring how literature relates to the news?
Whitney Terrell: I had almost no idea it would endure this long, and I’m not sure it should have, yet it’s become part of the cadence of my life. There will be a night when we sit down to draft the script, and that ritual has become embedded in how I navigate my days.
It also grew into a course I taught at UMKC, and it gave me a reason to talk with Sugi every week, so now it has become an integral part of everything. It’s hard to imagine not doing it. It’s like imagining a world without writing, in a way. Although, I suppose I would have more time to write if I weren’t hosting the show! Still, I’m glad it has persisted this long. How about you, Sugi?
V.V. Ganeshananthan: I remember the day you asked me to co-host with you. I think we were at AWP, having lunch, and I wondered, “How much effort will this require?” I figured it would demand a lot of work, and it turned out to be more demanding—and also more enjoyable—than I had anticipated.
I learned so many things I hadn’t expected and didn’t realize you could glean from this mode of collaboration. It’s been wonderful meeting many of the writers and a lot of your friends. In a funny way, I feel I gained access to your Rolodex. Lately we’ve also enjoyed adding new co-hosts, Jennifer, and the poet Christian Barter, who joined us earlier this year. That addition has been a lot of fun.
WT: I keep returning to that tagline, now repeated more times than I ever thought I would. The idea that every issue in your social media feed or on the evening news has already been explored in literature remains true, and I believe it matters.
The show endures because the premise is solid. There are many writers with political ideas who write about politics, past and present, and we get to engage with that in various ways. You won’t find a bunch of fiction writers and poets on the usual political podcasts—like the Bulwark or Pod Save America—where writers aren’t the typical guests. We have interpreted politics through many lenses, guided by our personalities, interests, and locales, which shape the episodes’ themes. Do you feel the same?
VVG: I remember you joking at one point about how our podcast leans toward South Asian and Sri Lankan perspectives, which is a funny notion. In truth, we’re also very much a Midwestern program. We’ve produced a notable number of episodes centered on Kansas City, the home for you and Jennifer.
KN: You’ve also hosted episodes about emerging writers and their craft. I recall my first appearance being an episode about MFAs and PhDs in creative writing.
Jennifer Maritza McCauley: I’ve long been an admirer. My first listen was in 2018, during the episode with Brit Bennett and Matt Gallagher. The football players’ protest at Missouri happened in my first year as a PhD student, and I was seeking something compelling to grab onto. I remember LitHub posting this brand-new podcast, and I thought, “Ooh, I want to listen to that.” I ended up really enjoying it. I don’t think I could have imagined working with you, Whitney, and the other co-hosts. It feels like a dream realized. I love Bennett’s remark that “Everything is a metaphor and symbol now, and we can’t agree on what those metaphors and symbols mean.” That was a fantastic episode, and it’s been such a joy to collaborate with all of you.
WT: That story is genuinely touching, because it mirrors what we hoped would happen for listeners who find the show and stumble upon it through LitHub.
Transcribed by Otter.ai. Condensed and edited by Rylee Adamson, Valen Williams, and Lucien Hockaday. Photograph of V.V. Ganeshananthan by Sophia Mayrhofer. Photograph of Whitney Terrell by Leslie Many. Photograph of Jennifer Maritza McCauley by Jesse Biehn.
